Somatoast: Authenticity in the Algorithm Age

Mark (00:00.076)
I’ve really grown to enjoy so many aspects that managers traditionally do. Like I love working with artists, I love making products, like I love making the vinyl and I love like pacing around and thinking of like, what do need to do next? It balances out making music, cause like I can’t be creative every day, all day. Sometimes I’ll like make music for like a week or two and be really creative and then kind of burn myself out. And then…

my brain switches over and I start thinking about management stuff. I get really creative in that realm. Like I feel certain aspects of management have become a second creative outlet for me. That’s been like a huge change across my journey as an artist because when I first started making music, I just only wanted to make art and I was grossed out by the idea of marketing or selling myself or making money or whatever.

I think I’ve just grown to really love the whole process.

Jesse Brede (00:59.022)
Welcome to another episode of A Path Unfolding. I’m your host, Jesse Breda. My guest here today is Mark Rubin, aka Somatos. Mark, welcome to the show. What’s up? Thanks for having me. Yeah, dude. I am so happy to have you here. We’ve been around the block a few times together. Gravitas has helped you release a bunch of your music. I’m so proud of where you are in your career and so happy to have you here today to talk about

the new album and everything that you’ve been up to. So yeah, man, like just first and foremost, how are you doing? I want to check in on you. I’m doing okay. Yeah, this has definitely been the hardest year of my life. But I have my house and my studio. My neighborhood is totally messed up, but I’m doing okay. Yeah.

I had saw you at Astronox, which was really great. And I got to catch your set and it was so cool to see how you’ve grown as a performer and your sets have grown. I think this new album is hitting some heavier moments. And so you have this really beautiful range of dynamics and energy and moods.

in your music, so that was fantastic. But you kind of caught me up on the story of the hurricane and living in North Carolina. you share that story with us real quick? Yeah, it is kind of, it is just kind of at the front of everything still. It’s been almost two months, I guess not quite two months, but a month and a half. And yeah, I live,

in the mountains like 30 minutes from Asheville and yeah the hurricane hit and the roads up here got destroyed and my neighborhood got hit really really bad. I live in like a mountain holler so I’m just like up the mountain kind of off the main road like all the roads are dirt back here and they got messed up and there’s like a bridge that connects us to the main road and that got washed away so I was stranded back here for like

Jesse Brede (03:21.454)
12 days, I think. And it was really scary. I think the scariest experience of my life. But also like one of the most beautiful in a weird way because just how everybody came together and like the bonds that I made with my neighbors and definitely changed my outlook on like humanity as a whole. Wow. And I always say it was like

psychedelic experience because there were so many similarities of just like, you know, it starts with terror and you’re scared, you’re terrorized and then you got no choice but to be like super vulnerable with your neighbors so like all these boundaries just dissolve in an instant and you know as terrifying as it was the way we came together was

I don’t know, it was just magic. And we got the roads fixed quicker than anyone thought. Not fixed, but I got to drive out of here after 12 days. There were a lot of similarities. You’re in this panic state and the time is just weird. There’s just, I don’t know, it just a crazy experience. Man, well I’m really glad you’re okay, brother. And I know it’s, we were all.

thinking about you and I know you even had to cancel some shows and yeah I did set to release your album and put that on pause so yeah I did yeah some real life shit man holy cow yeah yeah I couldn’t I couldn’t drive out of here so I I had to cancel a few shows and yeah that I had plans to to do the album and then even still having released the album

It’s still just weird. I feel like I’m just kind of going through the motions and I’ve been having a lot of trouble just participating in life. So showing up for how satirical and funny my album concept was. I had all this stuff planned, but I think it still has been hard to show up in the way that I really wanted to for it.

Jesse Brede (05:42.318)
But that’s just like my the energy that I’m putting into it. Like I think the response has been great and Yeah, I’m stoked to see more people’s reaction to it Yeah, I mean I got an early listen and I bought the vinyl and it’s it’s phenomenal I Love and you’ve been on a roll for the last three or four albums with the concept artwork tying into

the vinyl into the merch and to the music. It’s all really super cohesive, like such a tight, interesting, beautiful brand and presentation. Thank you. That honestly, I don’t see a lot of people bringing that level to the, to the, the, offering to, to the, to the game right now. Can you talk a little bit about how that has evolved over the years and how you’ve kind of discovered that? And yeah, I,

I think I’ve taken a like into, like beyond making just my music, is I’ve taken a like into like the whole vision and like each project that I can come up with going along with that. And my album art has been consistent by Mute Illustration. Like I discovered him, he did a poster for a show that I had and I just started having him do my album artwork and we worked great together because I can just give him.

any kind of concept I have and he always crushes it. And yeah, I’ve really taken a like into putting the record together and kind of just telling a story through the physical medium. Yeah, so when we did the album, Creation is Creation, we did a live stream on Sheevlite.

And we had animated the artwork or you had, and I thought, just thought that was so cool about, there was this, you know, these elements of, of, rebirth and death and the snake, you know, and the skull. And I just think that’s such a, such a fun way to put things together and really is sort of this new world that we’re living in for media, for music marketing, for getting people to engage on something and take a journey down.

Jesse Brede (08:06.616)
the music path and it’s challenging. It’s like, dang, really? Do we have to do all this to get people to listen to an album? But yeah, I mean, I think that’s where we’re at these days. And I think it’s dope that you’ve taken it on and gone like all in on it and you’re willing to like roll up your sleeves and do it yourself. You know, we’ve worked on records, obviously, but you you’ve done a bunch of self releases as well. And it’s like that’s ultimately all of that has really come from you and your vision and putting all of that together.

So the new album is Please Interact with My Content. And let’s talk about some of the concepts behind that and like where you were coming from that whole, the naming of it and sort of where you’re at musically as well. Yeah. So yeah, I think there’s like two sides to this is the concept of the album and the music, kind of it’s a, it’s, it might be a departure or

Some people might hear it as a departure from what they would expect normally. Even though my catalogue has always been all over the place, but it definitely is heavier and it’s interesting because it’s like, I think people are like, I’ve always been a black sheep kind of artist, didn’t know where I fit in or down tempo was always…

hard to sell, you know, I mean, sometimes hard to get people like hyped about. Yeah. And yeah, like I would be lying if I said that I never felt some type of pressure or like, you know, desire to get a certain reaction and excitement from people that I see from like these crazy like hype shows, you know, like, and it did push me to like explore more like dance upbeat styles. And but then at some point,

like I genuinely did get inspired by that and like trying to find this, trying to hit this like medium of like dance styles and formulas that would be more DJ-able, DJ-able, that would mix easily across the set and you know make DJs want to play it and but also have this like

Jesse Brede (10:31.768)
deeper or not deeper but more melodic, more just musical element. so I think I got really inspired by the structure of it all and like the structure of what makes a song more danceable. Because I spent a lot of time for so many years just being like, I’m going to arrange a piece of music.

and had no care for like, formula and structure was kind of the last thing on my mind. So really coming into this thinking more about like a stricter structure kind of gave me more creativity in a way to like explore that formula. And I think out of it came this like weird kind of like, yes, heavier, but also

in some ways not to like, I don’t know. Yeah. I mean, there was some moments in there where I’m like, this kind of feels like a little bit of techno. This kind of feels like a little bit of like a little bit of drum and bass, a little bit of like, you know, some of the mid tempo stuff. I, but it’s still 100 % you like the sound design and the, and the, the, you know, sort of articulations that you’re always adding and the, the, you know, the Foley and the, rhythm.

It was really cool. Like for me, it was a welcome, welcome expansion and sort of evolution of what you’re offering. I think it’s great that you opened yourself up to exploring and sort of a study on a new or sort of a new time or, you know, new sort of takes on certain genres. Like I think that’s where really interesting stuff can happen because no matter what, it’s going to be you.

Yeah, I know. I agree. I do think that, like copying is impossible. You know, like you could try it. Like I’ve always, if I get inspired by something, I try to copy it and, something different ends up coming out, but you learn something along the way. And yeah. And on like exploring those styles, it’s like after the pandemic, I was getting like good shows and, but I kept playing.

Jesse Brede (12:55.406)
had a bunch of shows in 2021 and I would finish the show and I would just be down on myself. It didn’t go, it never went the way I wanted it. I just wasn’t stoked on my music anymore. I was just like, I don’t know. I felt like I was just stuck in this void of like, well I know the song but there’s stuff I want to reach for that I just don’t know. So I had to sit and figure out like, okay what?

What am I, you know, what am I wanting from my music that I’m not feeling now? And that pushed me to be like, well, I need to learn more stuff. And that pushed me to take lessons and I took lessons from Mccante and his classes were so next level. Like, yeah, I can’t recommend it enough. And yeah, that helped me a lot.

So I spent, and watching tutorials, spent the year just learning more and yeah, that had me thinking about structure and formula. That’s really cool. mean, think that’s a lesson for, I mean, you’ve been making music for a good long while. I wanted to, yeah, at some point we’ll tell the story of when we first met, but it was like two…

recognize that you’re not exactly where you want to be and then think about like, what do I, what can I do to address that as an artist? And then really the answer is to continue to learn and go back to that beginner’s mind and go back to what else can I try that I haven’t done before? What way, how can I learn something new that really inspires me? That’s really cool because I think

one of the trappings of having some success is like, I need to just keep doing what I’ve been doing and stay in that place, but.

Jesse Brede (15:00.462)
as artists, right? Especially in today’s world. It’s like it’s really important to continue to evolve and and bring new ideas to the table for yourself to stay interested and then for the for the crowd and then for your fans to keep kind of seeing new layers of yourself. So that’s that’s really cool, man. That’s a beautiful story. And it’s awesome that it ties back to inconti because I love him. He’s a wizard. We him on the podcast and, know, another absolute gravitas homie that I’m so proud

to have worked with. So what about the name of the album and that concept behind that? Yeah, I mean, am, if you know me, my sense of humor is really satirical and like I think I can’t not be satirical. like the concept was honestly like, it’s

I felt like it was, it’s so tongue in cheek and satirical, but it’s also like, it’s also true to like my feelings and I’m sure the feelings of a lot of artists. and yeah, it does play into this like,

things that you just have to do. I think most artists can relate that there’s like a set of things that we all agreed upon or I don’t know if we agreed upon it but it was just like you have to do these things if you want to be a successful artist in this day. I think that’s the point. We didn’t agree upon it. The ways in which you have to

promote yourself or interact with the world like these channels they’re monopolized and they serve they don’t serve us they serve like an algorithm for profit and yada yada and so I think I feel kind of really forced into these these roles like this is how you have to show up if you want people to see your shit

Jesse Brede (17:19.197)
And the name, me and my girlfriend were just hanging out and we just came up with it together and we were just laughing our asses off. Cause each song name is also like, I wanted the album to be like saying the quiet part out loud, you know? Like the subtext of every video, every post that we make.

to be seen. so yeah, it’s like, it’s a satirical concept. I can have fun. love, you know, cultural commentary. That’s like, that’s my genre, you know? And so I I could explore that and, but the way I would come up with the stuff is just a real, real feelings that I’ve always had, you know? Yeah.

Well, let me read some of the titles or I’ll just read the song titles. Well, first the album is called Please Interact With My Content and all caps. Yeah. And then the first song is Virtue Signal, all caps. Number two is I.V. incessant validation. Number three is Cucked and Commodified. Number four is Broadcasting Live Every Thought.

Thank you very much. Number five is your disapproval shatters me. Six is melt and then seven is anthem of fun. Yeah, the last two were named before all of that. I just I wanted to put them on the vinyl. So I love it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, your disapproval shatters me like and some of your social media posts. It was so fun because you literally call people out to like.

Please interact with my content dear algorithm lords and like I forget all what you said but it was like and people it really did work. That’s the thing is like people loved it and went for it and I had so much fun commenting on it. It was great man. Yeah well it’s interesting because yeah I did I did have fun you know I wrote I still have posts I haven’t made but you know I spent you know months making a release plan with authoring like all kinds of posts.

Jesse Brede (19:37.824)
And I would just get ideas for them whenever and be like, it’d be so funny. And I think it did. It was like kind of allowing a space for people to have fun and make fun of themselves. And while simultaneously like doing the things that like you have to do for an album release, like make a post or like, before I announced the album, I had a

post that said doing things or doing stuff and things and it’s like and I was like I have once again been doing stuff and this has led to big things like comment you know everyone’s always like big things big things big things coming so I wanted to do a big things coming post and I was like everybody comment with your favorite way to say big gigantic max mega you know

I love it, man. It’s so great. It’s so clever. I, Trevor moon tribe from the desert dwellers was watching your site at, at, astronauts. And I was like, dude, you gotta check out his album, man. It’s so funny. I was like, it’s this whole thing and it’s a commentary on social media. And he was like, that is fucking brilliant because I think, like you said, like we’re all, it feels like such a have to that it takes the fun out of it. So you found a way to put the fun back in it and making fun of the whole thing is.

fantastic and it really shines a light on some of the pain and the stress and the, you know, the realness of like, okay, I gotta come up with this clever way to be like, look at me, which that’s really not what you set out to do originally. You wanted to play music and be an artist. And then all of a sudden we become like dancing puppets on the social media platform. And that doesn’t always work for everybody. I know you as a very sweet, you know,

inward, you know, vulnerable, chill, like humble human being. And the algorithm is not super rewarding to that. And like, I love that you’ve, you’ve found a way, you know, within all your friends, of course, you’re hilarious and funny, but like, you know, when you first meet someone, it’s not like, look at me like, you know, and that, and so I think this is great, man. I think this is a lesson, a masterclass in marketing and finding your way through.

Jesse Brede (22:05.25)
this whole world of marketing and trying to like get your word out, which is just, know, yeah. It’s kind of mind numbing after a while. So, yeah, I, yeah, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t call it a masterclass because I don’t know if I’d suggest everybody to take that route. But, yeah, I mean, I, and I, and I do think the art carries it. Like the arts, the bright.

art and the craziness it’s it’s got to like it’s all part of it you know if i was just like taking videos of myself being like please interact with my god like i don’t know yeah i mean look at these these colors are so dope man yeah that’s that’s all mute yeah these all have been printed on vinyl the creamsicle is so lush like i just thought about i was probably get the purple too if there’s still one because i don’t want them both collect them all

Yeah. but that was another aspect of like, okay, people were interacting and enjoying with it, but you know, I was also afraid of, offending people, like, cause I mean, my satire offends people all the time and I try not to inject it into like my work or whatever. But, so I was afraid of that. You know, if people, I don’t know, I came up with all kinds of narratives or scenarios, people would be like, well.

You should be so appreciative to make art all the time. Like if you don’t like it, get off the platform. I don’t know. And the copy, like if you go on my website, it’ll say like, you know, when on my website it says, thank you for interaction. Now please commodify my content and here’s the web store. And then the description of my album is like, validate me as a productive member of society by buying my record.

or by commodifying my content. at first I drafted it and I was like, help me not die by giving me money. And like, I think there were just like certain lines I didn’t cross of like, maybe that’s a little too real or too like, you know, so yeah.

Jesse Brede (24:26.094)
Well, mean, comedy is comedy. mean, you’ve got one on here that’s called Virtual Signal. It’s like comedy is tough because there’s some comedy these days. And, you know, I don’t think I’m like totally woke, but it’s like some things I’m like, is that funny? Cause it’s, it’s sort of just mean to a group of people. And I don’t necessarily think that’s, but I this is, is mean to the right things. Let’s be mean to the things. Yeah. Yeah. Well, so that was something I wrote in my release plan. Like I wrote,

like rules for myself that I didn’t want to break, which is like this satire, I want to satire me. I want to satire like me being an artist. And that’s why I was careful. I was like, I’m still, I still literally want you to buy my shit. like, if I, if I criticize you as a consumer and made you feel like you were doing something bad by like patronizing my art, which I do want you to do. And I do appreciate.

You know, I wrote rules for myself to be like, okay, stick, make, make the jokes about me. And the only time I crossed that line was when I called everybody cows for being, for being, I said, we’re all livestock on the data farm. And I people enjoyed that. I did. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, but yeah, I love it. sorry. What are you gonna say?

Well, I was just gonna keep ranting on the whole Cal thing, you know. Ultimately, when we… My thoughts is ultimately the way that we have been literally trained to show up on social media in pursuit of artistic career. These ways in which we have literally shaped the landscape of how artists…

not even artists, but how brands or any sector of doing stuff, the way that we have to show up to our people who will patronize what we’re doing, is being shaped by what serves that algorithm. And that algorithm is not in service to us, it’s in service to data farming and making money off of our data. And so…

Jesse Brede (26:49.42)
You know, we all are that livestock that, like we’re all working for that farm, you know? Yeah. I’ve said this before too. I say this to artists when I’ll do like artist development coaching. I’ll be like, find the social media platform that you actually enjoy and are interested in creating content for that makes you, that actually fills you up.

Like if you want to be making videos of yourself doing crazy dances, that’s great. But if not, then don’t do it. And I say, make social media work for you. You don’t work for social media. And I see people feeling like they need to post on every platform, everything, you know, going back to your, you know, live streaming every thought it’s like, I find that doesn’t work. I think that we get caught up in that or, you know, at least some people get caught up in feeling like we need to push.

post every single thing and it’s like what I find for most successful artists is that less is more, more intentional content, more thoughtful content, more funny content, when it suits you, even taking a break for a couple months, weeks, whatever it may be and not posting just so that you’re not in there all the time being bombarded by the negativity and the…

you know, everything that’s on there, the dopamine. I mean, I just recently have taken all the social media off my phone in an attempt to really kind of disconnect from that. And it’s been, it’s actually a really been a game changer for me to not feel like I need to open my phone and open these apps. And the amount of dopamine, yeah, dopamine rewiring that we’ve done to ourselves is crazy. I’m 44. I know you’re a little, you’re younger than me, but

There was a time when we didn’t have any of this and now we have whole generations that are growing up almost always having a phone in front of them and getting so used to that habitual checking, habitual validation, habitual like, I need to share this with people. That’s entire thoughts and ideas that are not getting played out in their lives because it’s just around this thing happened. Now I need to share it on the phone versus

Jesse Brede (29:06.86)
taking time to process and think about it or share it, know, more, more be more present with your loved ones, things like that. So yeah, I think this is a fantastic point and topic to really try to, you know, make social media work for you, which I think you’ve done a great, great way of figuring that out. Yeah. I mean, I wouldn’t say, the record sales are any better than what they have been before, which is fine, which is good, but, yeah, but

like it’s, I wouldn’t say it’s like this magic marketing trick, but it is just a fun way to do an album release. And like, yeah, the most fun I’ve had like with, with every single part of the process, know? Right on. I will say right now in terms of the economy and people, I think it’s a very different time than especially coming out of COVID and stuff. I’ve seen record sales and just people’s money is just not where it was.

No, yeah, I feel that. Yeah. Yeah. Let’s tell the story of meeting, not for the first time, but just that whole like initial, you know, sitting down. It was you, myself and John Burcham, Symbionic. Was it? Where was it called? Thai? I think it was called Thai Kitchen. Yeah. Yeah. In Austin.

Yeah, on Guadalupe and I think at the time you making some music and getting going and some people had mentioned that like, you should connect with this guy, Mark. He’s making some dope stuff. I think it would be a good fit for Gravitas. And I think at the time your artist name, you were going by Crazy Fingers. Yeah, like a great reference. Yeah. And we sat down and you had probably like four or five different names that you floated and you brought up.

somatos and John and I both were like, that’s good. I like that. And I think even that’s kind of a satirical idea, right? In a sense. I mean, think I had a lot of ideas. Like I could, I could, I could make up, I have a few narratives about it, but yeah, it rolls off the tongue and yeah. Yeah. I love it. I, I remember distinctly like you lived at,

Jesse Brede (31:30.862)
Was it Pearl Street? Which co-op was it? I lived at House of Commons and first I lived at Eden too. But then I lived at House of Commons for a few years. Yeah, and so anybody who’s not from Austin or in that world, the co-ops are basically the fraternities for weird people. they turn you into a gay Marxist. Yes.

Exactly. So there’s all the gay frauds there and we drink, we’re all like, yeah, we have to swear to, Marxists. Yeah. And it, it’s a beautiful experience to live in these co-ops where there’s no adults running it and it’s self run and there’s a little government and there’s a little committee and you vote on who gets to join next year. And I lived at the Taos co-op and I was the party planner and I had to do, I had to do one educational event and one party every month and my best friend.

was the kitchen planner and there’s so many cool like real world like skills you can actually learn. manage an industrial kitchen or learn how to be an event manager or learn how to do democracy. Yeah. So when I learned that you were there, I was like, dude, this is awesome. I really want to work with this guy. And yeah, man. So what a journey, That was a fun. I cooked food. That’s where I learned how to cook for myself, really.

Yes, which to think like we’re sending people out into the world and they don’t know how to do laundry. They don’t know how to cook. They like there’s no real skills teaching and then we just supposed to figure that out. it’s like, but you know what the capital in Nebraska is because you’ve taken 37, you know, government, you know, classes that never use in your life. Yeah. No, I don’t know.

Well, who cares though? That’s the point. It’s like, it’s really cool. So I love the fact that you went to the co-op and that we like connected on that and man, you’ve been such a cool part of the gravitas journey and it’s been so cool to watch you evolve and like grow. I mean, one of the, I was just saying gravitas has been essential to my journey. Like you guys have guided me and taught me everything. Thank you, man. Not everything.

Jesse Brede (33:52.334)
We’ve learned it together. Yeah, we’ve learned it together and it’s been amazing. Like to me that’s like these types of relationships are the rewards of the entire endeavor to watch someone like of your caliber and your artistic mind and sensibilities and vulnerabilities, like put yourself out there and to have it, to see you grow to the point of opening up for tipper.

You playing right before him at the Texas Eclipse to some I don’t even know what was it like 20 or 30,000 people there? I don’t know. I It was crazy. It was lot of people crazy I think it was more than 10,000 because it looked bigger than a Red Rocks crowd, but yeah, that’s that’s all I can say it was cool Yeah, man, and so like this is what I’m talking about the fact that that you can You really step up and play a set like that before of course the the legend tipper

was hella nervous. I’m sure. So how did, I mean, how was that for you aside being nervous? Like how did it go? How did it feel to play a crowd that size? Well, I was freaking out the whole time because like they had to turn the sound down before I played and I was freaking out. I was like, this always happens to me. They always do the noise ordinance and then I have to play. But look, I think it sounded great. I mean the videos.

looked good but while I was up there I was like and I was just very nervous I was very very nervous like I just I think I tried to avoid looking at the crowd or like analyzing it or thinking about how big it was I just was an ant up there anyway so

But it was amazing. mean, it’s a lot of people. That’s a lot of people, man. Well, I think it’s a perfect, I think it makes perfect sense. So I think whoever programmed that stage was on point. I guess the next day they had, it was supposed to be like Axel Thesliff and then it was going to be Zingara and Closie and Ellis Dream.

Jesse Brede (36:03.51)
or I don’t remember the exact order, but I was like, man, this is cool. And those are all people that Gravitas has had some, I guess, minus LS Dream had some work with. so to see so many of those artists getting that kind of top billing at a once in a lifetime event like that was really dope. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. was a full circle moment for sure. Just with.

coming back to Austin for me personally. Yeah. So when I had been on the podcast, he told me about his plugin that he’s been working on with the data mine audio. And he said that they had brought you in as one of the artists. And it’s kind of like this, like he kind of referenced like Gameboy, like you would put in a cartridge. So you like plug in your favorite artists as the like sample set and like they’ve so like, how did it work? What, what exactly did you guys do there?

Well, I gave them a folder of a ton of my stems and songs and sounds. Just any sound, like any singular sound or song, whatever I thought kind of described my sound, know? And I gave them a bunch of samples and they build a neural network based on that material.

You know, like, remember when deep dreams first came out? Like Google deep dreams was like the first, I think it was like people’s first experience with neural networks, I guess. But like that neural network was built on dogs, right? So like everything, every picture that you made with it, like ended up looking like a dog. Yeah, I’m the dog. You’re the dog. Yo dog, I heard you like dogs. You want a dog?

So, and it comes with like a free, you get a bag of bread to make your toast every time you buy one.

Jesse Brede (38:07.934)
But yeah, it’s like that. It’s like the information you input is You know me or the dog so like the output that you get is gonna be look like or sound like Some toast, you know, that’s cool. That’s cool. Yeah, I want to try that out I haven’t got a chance to play with it. I think that’s fine I’m just obviously we were talking about Ben earlier and I know he’s freaking Wizard and he worked with a couple other people on that as well

I forget their names, but they’re also wizards. in that whole DEFCON hacker world doing crazy stuff with AI now. And he’s gotten a lot of artists on there doing, like they’re called brains. Like the Norse language is called brain. So he has the brain of, know, Entangled Mine and Wulg and I think Rob Clough. Yeah. They’ve been building it. They have a lot of people on there now.

Smart. mean, I think it’s cool to He said it was like, you know, one of the cool things was that there’s like this revenue sharing with the artists So as the packs get picked up you get a like you get your slice which as a label like we’ve done obviously done the more traditional just music release, but then we started doing things like stems and sample packs and you did a sample pack for us called squish and it seems like

Splice just really took the air out of all of that stuff and everybody just went in all in on Splice and I’ve sort of seen less and less people doing anything with sample packs, which I think is a bummer because, or maybe not, maybe as an artist it’s like, I don’t really want to do that much of that because there’s only so much that you can really offer. And then like how many more kick drums do you need? And we’ll see, you know, with AI, I think this is, you know, a whole new world obviously, but to have your…

you know, it’s kind of like a little bit of like a challenge, if you’re just giving people so much of a way to sound just like you, that’s kind of maybe a scary thing to offer. Yeah, don’t see it like that. I don’t even think that it really does that. Like, it’s not as simple as you just press play and it creates a whole new song that sounds like me. But as you like drag the thing around, you have to put something into it. Like, you have to already have a loop going or some kind of sound, anything.

Jesse Brede (40:30.722)
You have to have already a sound that’s going into it. So it’s like an effect. doesn’t generate noise on its own. So like you put it on as an effect and it will hear whatever you’re putting into it and what it hears out, like what it perceives and what you’re giving it and like what it decides, what it perceives in the sound is going to be like things that have characters like

me or like whoever the artist was that that made the brain. So if you’re putting in like a synth sound into it, it’s gonna like make the synth have more characters like that. Or sometimes it will, they call it hallucinating, sometimes it will hallucinate like drum noises and it will it will start to hallucinate different sounds out of what you give it. it is a big metaphor. Like, you know, the the shit you hallucinate is based on

how your brain’s already wired or whatever. So it’s like whose brain are you gonna hallucinate through? I love it. That’s awesome. I wanted to ask you about sort of like self-management. I know right now you’re self-managed and how that journey has been. I think that’s something that people have asked me a lot. Like when should I get a manager? And I’ve always been like, man, you should try to do as much as you can for as long as you can to learn as much as you can.

Is that sort of your approach or what’s what that’s what’s happening? I There’s a lot that I know how to do and there’s a lot that I enjoy doing That it like I would like a manager if they could help me scale or You know, it’s hard to justify Giving a percentage of my income like when I can when I don’t have a

I make merch, I love doing all that. I would like a manager if someone can make the line go up and then it would be worth it. Because I do need help scaling, I think. I’ve really grown to enjoy so many aspects that I think managers traditionally do. I love working with artists, I love making products, I love…

Jesse Brede (42:57.814)
I love making the vinyl. And I love pacing around and thinking of like, what’s my next project? what’s my next… What do need to do next? kind of thing, you know?

and i was gonna say it it it balances out making music like i can be creative everyday all day like i i i guess sometimes i like make music for like a week or two and be really creative and then kind of burn myself out and then i switch my brain switches over and i start thinking about man it managing management stuff and i get really creative in that realm like i feel i feel like

certain aspects of management have become a second creative outlet for me. And that’s been like a huge change across my journey as an artist because when I first started making music, just only wanted to make art and I was grossed out by the idea of marketing or selling myself or making money or whatever.

Mm-hmm and

Yeah, I think I’ve just grown to really love the whole process, the whole vision, the whole package.

Jesse Brede (44:32.358)
And yeah, and you know, I think a lot of artists start out with this misconception that there’s gonna be this like magic manager that steps in and they make you huge and they make you successful or they make you prolific or whatever, you know? well, it’s not, it does happen. I mean, it has happened for select people.

It’s not something that like you can rely on or like plan on. And I tell this to people all the time. I’m sure you’ve told people something similar is like no one is gonna care about your project as much as you are. Yeah. Even if you do find someone who will want to be a manager, like the amount of care and intention and vision that they put into it, like all that really has to come from the artist.

thing. So any managers out there who are awesome, like I would love a manager if they can help me get kind of past where I’m currently at. But there’s a lot of basic things that I enjoy doing myself already. I think that’s amazing that it’s really a mindset thing, right? And taking on new challenges, learning new skills, being open to the complete

you know, set that’s necessary to be an independent artist. I think if you’re talking about major music, you know, labels and operations, and of course, you’re going to need a manager and an agent and all these other people and a creative director and blah, blah. But for you to take on the attitude of like, I’m going to have fun with this, I’m going to take it on and like, enjoy it and learn it and then put your put your own creative spin on it is is so

It’s such a cool lesson in just being like, that’s sort of like the modern day Renaissance approach to being an independent music artist and not fighting it, not trying to resist that that’s the way it is, not complaining about it. mean, of course, like you said, if you could find somebody that’s a great team member. I’ve seen someone like, in the early days, like Marvel years, him and his manager were like, of, it was like a co-thing. Like the manager had been there for a really, really long time.

Jesse Brede (46:58.642)
And so I think they worked really well together. And even though Corey, know, Marvel, yours was the one that was up on stage, like that was, they were really co-creating the project together. And that can be a way that it works too. and, they worked together for a really long time. I’m actually not sure if they still work together or not, but it’s, you got to find what works for you. And I think what you said is like, you found that balance to be like, okay, I’m to be creative. And now when I kind of lose maybe some momentum in that area, I can jump over to the business side of things and kind of.

kick stuff up there and work on the admin stuff. And I hear that a good bit. And you know, it seems like an opportunity to continue just to grow, which is sort of, think, one of the themes of what I’m hearing for you is like, okay, I’m gonna take on this new sound, or I’m gonna take on this new role, or I’m gonna take on learning how to do vinyl.

I gotta say like the vinyl process is not always that easy. Who do you work with now? Are you still working with Deep Grooves? I think I was the last artist to receive records from Deep Grooves. They went bankrupt. People haven’t heard. my gosh. have friends. I won’t name names because I don’t know if they care but you know. Yeah. We know people who have given Deep Grooves full payment and they’re like oopsies.

my gosh dude, wow. They gotta get it figured out. Damn. Yeah. That sucks dude. mean, their claim was that they were more eco-friendly than other vinyl. I don’t know how actually true it was or not. cause a few months ago they sent out a bunch of emails being like, we just invested in a bunch of new equipment. We have faster turnaround times. I’m wondering if…

they were in over their heads maybe because like simultaneously I’ve seen vinyl plants like spring up everywhere I’ve been getting maybe my ads are just dialed in but I’m getting ads for all kinds of new vinyl plants all over the place I think prices are lowering so I’m wondering if maybe they invested in a bunch of new equipment well at the same time there’s like a ton more competition that’s just my guess but yeah

Jesse Brede (49:19.284)
I mean, were a good company. They had good products. They were busy and maybe sometimes screwed stuff up. yeah, they were good. Yeah. Well, that’s a bummer. Well, man, what a, what a cool, cool chat. Thank you for dropping in with me and sharing all your wisdom and adventures of late. Any, anything else you want to share? Any upcoming stuff you’re excited about shows or?

other other plans you got? I’m I’m reprinting these t-shirts so if you didn’t get yours and they’re restocked on my website now they should be ready soon and yeah I got more music to drop once I feel like I’ve made fun of the internet enough. Let’s do it.

Well man, I’m so glad you’re doing better the in our okay after the hurricane that was fucking scary I’m Really stoked on the new record stoked on everything you’re doing brother and thanks for coming on and sharing your story brother I’ll catch you on the next one. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me Jesse Bye mark. All right